Comments on: Model Paint (and decal) Removal http://billabbott.wordpress.com words, music, cars, computers, model airplanes, parenthood, politics, photography, film, tv, books (I'm a recreational user of all of these...) Wed, 16 Dec 2009 00:47:19 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: sandrar http://billabbott.wordpress.com/paint-and-finishing-for-model-builders-mostly-20th-century-stuff-a-little-about-figures/model-paint-and-decal-removal/#comment-560 sandrar Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:45:56 +0000 http://billabbott.wordpress.com/?page_id=37#comment-560 Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post... nice! I love your blog. :) Cheers! Sandra. R. Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post… nice! I love your blog. :) Cheers! Sandra. R.

]]> By: Bill Abbott http://billabbott.wordpress.com/paint-and-finishing-for-model-builders-mostly-20th-century-stuff-a-little-about-figures/model-paint-and-decal-removal/#comment-361 Bill Abbott Mon, 20 Apr 2009 01:17:49 +0000 http://billabbott.wordpress.com/?page_id=37#comment-361 Hi Tom, I'm familiar with a number of different Cox airplanes. Some looked painted-on, some appeared to be water-slide decals, some were stickers. The difference between 'decal' and 'sticker', in my mind, is that a decal is thin and can slide, to some extent, on the surface its being applied to, until the solvent (usually water) evaporates; while a sticker is thicker, applied dry and can't be slid around during application. The glue on a sticker is 'pressure sensitive' rather than solvent based. The word "Decal" is often used for both styles. How to remove markings depends on what they're made of and what they're applied to. If you've got a solid plastic Cox airplane, the P-39, P-40, P-51, F4U Corsair, Cessna 152/172, Ju-87 Stuka, etc, and a waterslide decal, I'd start with warm, soapy, water and an old tooth brush. If that really doesn't do it, perhaps Testor's E.L.O. would help A waterslide decal on a plastic plane might have a fuel-proof coating, you're beyond my experience. Years ago I remember a friend's brother had an F4U Corsair that was "Chromed" (vaccuum-sputtered aluminum) that fuel residue had partially lifted, but I can't remember whether it had decals, stickers or nothing left... With painted-on or decals (thin, solvent based) you can always rub or sand-off the markings. Start with a really light abrasive- toothpaste. Light wet-dry sandpaper (I've used 600 to 2000) with water have worked for me. The lightest abrasive that works is best, obviously. Commercial polishing products like Simichrome, Turtle Wax White Polish and the different varieties of Brasso have solvents other than water, so you need to test a small amount in an obscure place before doing the top of the wing... If the Cox airplane has stickers, and their glue has absorbed some fuel residue, that could be a sticky nightmare. Any stickers should be peeled up if at all possible. Try peeling from every side and in every direction. Use a plastic putty knife or something else sharp but soft (fingernails...) to peel. I *have* used baby-oil to lift price-tags and other stickery stuff, it might be a good tool to soften the sticky glue and/or clean it off. Whenever possible, peeling is WAY better than trying to dissolve the glue. Sticker glue isn't something you want to thin and then rub around on anything... ick! If your plane is styrofoam or other foam plastic Hi Tom,
I’m familiar with a number of different Cox airplanes. Some looked painted-on, some appeared to be water-slide decals, some were stickers. The difference between ‘decal’ and ’sticker’, in my mind, is that a decal is thin and can slide, to some extent, on the surface its being applied to, until the solvent (usually water) evaporates; while a sticker is thicker, applied dry and can’t be slid around during application. The glue on a sticker is ‘pressure sensitive’ rather than solvent based. The word “Decal” is often used for both styles.

How to remove markings depends on what they’re made of and what they’re applied to. If you’ve got a solid plastic Cox airplane, the P-39, P-40, P-51, F4U Corsair, Cessna 152/172, Ju-87 Stuka, etc, and a waterslide decal, I’d start with warm, soapy, water and an old tooth brush. If that really doesn’t do it, perhaps Testor’s E.L.O. would help

A waterslide decal on a plastic plane might have a fuel-proof coating, you’re beyond my experience. Years ago I remember a friend’s brother had an F4U Corsair that was “Chromed” (vaccuum-sputtered aluminum) that fuel residue had partially lifted, but I can’t remember whether it had decals, stickers or nothing left…

With painted-on or decals (thin, solvent based) you can always rub or sand-off the markings. Start with a really light abrasive- toothpaste. Light wet-dry sandpaper (I’ve used 600 to 2000) with water have worked for me. The lightest abrasive that works is best, obviously.

Commercial polishing products like Simichrome, Turtle Wax White Polish and the different varieties of Brasso have solvents other than water, so you need to test a small amount in an obscure place before doing the top of the wing…

If the Cox airplane has stickers, and their glue has absorbed some fuel residue, that could be a sticky nightmare. Any stickers should be peeled up if at all possible. Try peeling from every side and in every direction. Use a plastic putty knife or something else sharp but soft (fingernails…) to peel. I *have* used baby-oil to lift price-tags and other stickery stuff, it might be a good tool to soften the sticky glue and/or clean it off. Whenever possible, peeling is WAY better than trying to dissolve the glue. Sticker glue isn’t something you want to thin and then rub around on anything… ick!

If your plane is styrofoam or other foam plastic

]]> By: tom casto http://billabbott.wordpress.com/paint-and-finishing-for-model-builders-mostly-20th-century-stuff-a-little-about-figures/model-paint-and-decal-removal/#comment-360 tom casto Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:49:38 +0000 http://billabbott.wordpress.com/?page_id=37#comment-360 bill i have a cox airplane i need to remove some old decals.what do you suggest? Thanks Tom bill i have a cox airplane i need to remove some old decals.what do you suggest? Thanks Tom

]]> By: Bill Abbott http://billabbott.wordpress.com/paint-and-finishing-for-model-builders-mostly-20th-century-stuff-a-little-about-figures/model-paint-and-decal-removal/#comment-335 Bill Abbott Wed, 08 Apr 2009 07:26:27 +0000 http://billabbott.wordpress.com/?page_id=37#comment-335 I recall seeing P-51s with a more-yellow chromate on the wing spar, that is, the back edge of the main wheel wells, and more-green chromate elsewhere in the gear wells. In the Testor's Acryl line there are a Yellow and a Green Chromate. Neither is "Interior Green", which was never a pre-mixed color, but simply a target that green zinc chromate was supposed to be tinted to match. Testor's offer the following in their Acryl line: http://www.testors.com/category/136645?n=0 1 or 2 Interior Green FS 34151 - Acryl SKU 4736 - n=1 Yellow Zinc Chromate (no FS #) Acryl SKU 4851 - n=2 Green Zinc Chromate (no FS #) Acryl SKU 4852 - n=1 Other interior colors: RAF Interior Gray/Green (Fuel/hydraulic fluid proof) Acryl SKU 4850 Panzer Interior Buff Acryl SKU 4805 http://www.testors.com/category/135243/American_FS_Enamel_Paint Interior Green FS 34151 - (oil) enamel SKU 1715 Green Zinc Chromate (no FS #) (oil) enamel SKU 1734 The Testor's oil enamel paints do not include RAF Interior Gray Green, Yellow Zinc Chromate or Panzer Interior Buff. They don't offer a spray can version of any of these shades. Tamiya's Acrylic line includes nothing claimed to match Zinc Chromate, although XF4 Yellow Green looks like a usable yellow zinc chromate shade to me. XF71 (IJN) Cockpit Gray Green is probably the best current match to the gray-green used in MItsubishi Zeros for the Imperial Japanese Navy. There is no straight match for RAF interior Gray Green or US Interior Green. Neither their TS nor AS line of spray paints include any of these colors. I'll research more later, and I"ve got a Tamiya Mustang 'D' kit, I'll see if they list different mixes for the aft wall of the main gear well (Main spar) vs the rest. Its not beyond the realm of possibility that real zinc chromate is a faintly greenish yellow, and the medium green tint we know as Green Zinc Chromate is just a light mix of black and Zinc Chromate- Yellow + black = olive, after all. Happy modeling! Bill I recall seeing P-51s with a more-yellow chromate on the wing spar, that is, the back edge of the main wheel wells, and more-green chromate elsewhere in the gear wells. In the Testor’s Acryl line there are a Yellow and a Green Chromate. Neither is “Interior Green”, which was never a pre-mixed color, but simply a target that green zinc chromate was supposed to be tinted to match.

Testor’s offer the following in their Acryl line:

http://www.testors.com/category/136645?n=0 1 or 2
Interior Green FS 34151 – Acryl SKU 4736 – n=1
Yellow Zinc Chromate (no FS #) Acryl SKU 4851 – n=2
Green Zinc Chromate (no FS #) Acryl SKU 4852 – n=1
Other interior colors:
RAF Interior Gray/Green (Fuel/hydraulic fluid proof) Acryl SKU 4850
Panzer Interior Buff Acryl SKU 4805

http://www.testors.com/category/135243/American_FS_Enamel_Paint
Interior Green FS 34151 – (oil) enamel SKU 1715

Green Zinc Chromate (no FS #) (oil) enamel SKU 1734

The Testor’s oil enamel paints do not include RAF Interior Gray Green,
Yellow Zinc Chromate or Panzer Interior Buff. They don’t offer a spray can
version of any of these shades.

Tamiya’s Acrylic line includes nothing claimed to match Zinc Chromate,
although XF4 Yellow Green looks like a usable yellow zinc chromate shade to me.
XF71 (IJN) Cockpit Gray Green is probably the best current match to
the gray-green used in MItsubishi Zeros for the Imperial Japanese Navy.
There is no straight match for RAF interior Gray Green or US Interior Green.

Neither their TS nor AS line of spray paints include any of these colors.

I’ll research more later, and I”ve got a Tamiya Mustang ‘D’ kit, I’ll see if they
list different mixes for the aft wall of the main gear well (Main spar) vs the rest.

Its not beyond the realm of possibility that real zinc chromate is a faintly
greenish yellow, and the medium green tint we know as Green Zinc Chromate
is just a light mix of black and Zinc Chromate- Yellow + black = olive, after all.

Happy modeling!

Bill

]]> By: Don M Marchini http://billabbott.wordpress.com/paint-and-finishing-for-model-builders-mostly-20th-century-stuff-a-little-about-figures/model-paint-and-decal-removal/#comment-331 Don M Marchini Tue, 07 Apr 2009 08:16:17 +0000 http://billabbott.wordpress.com/?page_id=37#comment-331 Painting a P-51D "Big Beautiful Doll", It calls for Chromate Yellow" and "Chromate Green"...All I could find in testors is Zinc Chromate, which seems like the appropiate yellow. Is this corrrect? How do I find the green, and not can I mix it some how? Thanks. Painting a P-51D “Big Beautiful Doll”, It calls for Chromate Yellow” and “Chromate Green”…All I could find in testors is Zinc Chromate, which seems like the appropiate yellow. Is this corrrect? How do I find the green, and not can I mix it some how? Thanks.

]]> By: ah.wakkeramans http://billabbott.wordpress.com/paint-and-finishing-for-model-builders-mostly-20th-century-stuff-a-little-about-figures/model-paint-and-decal-removal/#comment-310 ah.wakkeramans Sun, 29 Mar 2009 16:01:33 +0000 http://billabbott.wordpress.com/?page_id=37#comment-310 attachment: Even I used modelengine fuel with 16% nitrometaan and methanol and 16% oil. Bey bey. attachment: Even I used modelengine fuel with 16% nitrometaan and methanol and 16% oil. Bey bey.

]]> By: ah.wakkeramans http://billabbott.wordpress.com/paint-and-finishing-for-model-builders-mostly-20th-century-stuff-a-little-about-figures/model-paint-and-decal-removal/#comment-309 ah.wakkeramans Sun, 29 Mar 2009 13:42:21 +0000 http://billabbott.wordpress.com/?page_id=37#comment-309 Mr Bill.The plastic model, I painted it with TAMIYA paint spray fore plastics. I used two colours': Tamiya TS_19/metallic bleu ,and Tamiya TS_29/semi gloss black.You have to rub with tisseus or toothbrush or something like that.The surface of the model keeps his gloss.I think it is not the fastest way, but for your model the safest.Lets say....take time and you will be satisfied about the results.TS_29 give the most work because its stubborn .TS_19 less. Greetings from overhere A.H Wakkermans Mr Bill.The plastic model, I painted it with TAMIYA paint spray fore plastics. I used two colours’: Tamiya TS_19/metallic bleu ,and Tamiya TS_29/semi gloss black.You have to rub with tisseus or toothbrush or something like that.The surface of the model keeps his gloss.I think it is not the fastest way, but for your model the safest.Lets say….take time and you will be satisfied about the results.TS_29 give the most work because its stubborn .TS_19 less. Greetings from overhere A.H Wakkermans

]]> By: Bill Abbott http://billabbott.wordpress.com/paint-and-finishing-for-model-builders-mostly-20th-century-stuff-a-little-about-figures/model-paint-and-decal-removal/#comment-301 Bill Abbott Fri, 27 Mar 2009 02:07:21 +0000 http://billabbott.wordpress.com/?page_id=37#comment-301 Hi AH, Thanks, always good to hear what actually works for people. If you don't mind, some questions: Oil-based paint, water based or both? Is the Brasso's solvent dissolving the paint (no rubbing required) ? Is the very fine abrasive wearing it off (rubbing required)? Or a combination (some dissolves and colors the Brasso before you rub, but rubbing is required to get down to clean plastic)? Thanks! I've got some Brasso, and I'll give it a try myself next time I'm fooling around with paint stripping! Bill Hi AH,
Thanks, always good to hear what actually works for people. If you don’t mind, some questions:
Oil-based paint, water based or both?
Is the Brasso’s solvent dissolving the paint (no rubbing required) ?
Is the very fine abrasive wearing it off (rubbing required)?
Or a combination (some dissolves and colors the Brasso before you rub, but rubbing is required to get down to clean plastic)?
Thanks! I’ve got some Brasso, and I’ll give it a try myself next time I’m fooling around with paint stripping!

Bill

]]> By: ah.wakkermans http://billabbott.wordpress.com/paint-and-finishing-for-model-builders-mostly-20th-century-stuff-a-little-about-figures/model-paint-and-decal-removal/#comment-299 ah.wakkermans Thu, 26 Mar 2009 22:36:12 +0000 http://billabbott.wordpress.com/?page_id=37#comment-299 For paint removel I used "BRASSO METAL POLISH very succesfull. A.h.W For paint removel I used “BRASSO METAL POLISH very succesfull. A.h.W

]]> By: Bill Abbott http://billabbott.wordpress.com/paint-and-finishing-for-model-builders-mostly-20th-century-stuff-a-little-about-figures/model-paint-and-decal-removal/#comment-204 Bill Abbott Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:58:42 +0000 http://billabbott.wordpress.com/?page_id=37#comment-204 Hi Paul, Thank you. Thats a good recipe. YES to gloves, for sure, and cold water rinsing and no splashing!! I have heard that brake-fluid will strip both paint and 'chrome' (aluminum) plating from styrene plastic. And that oven cleaner will also do the deed. If you're on a budget, brake fluid is probably the cheapest, oven cleaner next cheapest. I'm pretty sure cold water will clean off the oven cleaner, not sure about the brake fluid. I'd take a pass with luke warm water and some dish detergent (hand wash stuff) after either. A series of older VWs, a VW-Porsche 914 and a Triumph Herald in my younger days gave me all the brake fluid experience I wanted, so the milder chemistry of the dedicated hobby product, at a slightly higher cost, appeals strongly to me. Happy Modelling! Bill Hi Paul,
Thank you. Thats a good recipe. YES to gloves, for sure, and cold water rinsing and no splashing!!

I have heard that brake-fluid will strip both paint and ‘chrome’ (aluminum) plating from styrene plastic. And that oven cleaner will also do the deed.

If you’re on a budget, brake fluid is probably the cheapest, oven cleaner next cheapest. I’m pretty sure cold water will clean off the oven cleaner, not sure about the brake fluid. I’d take a pass with luke warm water and some dish detergent (hand wash stuff) after either.

A series of older VWs, a VW-Porsche 914 and a Triumph Herald in my younger days gave me all the brake fluid experience I wanted, so the milder chemistry of the dedicated hobby product, at a slightly higher cost, appeals strongly to me.

Happy Modelling!
Bill

]]>